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307 1.4 hdi HELP!!!!!

Adam307307

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PostPosted: Thu 29 Mar, 2012 5:54 pm Reply with quote
Hi Guys

Could really do with some help......

Peugeot 307 1.4 HDI year 2003

I'm achieving around 30mpg on short runs and around 32mpg on long runs (This is absolutely shocking!!!!!)

According to the cars handbook, i should be achieving something close to the following

Urban: 51.4 mpg
Combined:  62.8 mpg
Extra urban: 70.6 mpg

The car starts and drives fine, it gets serviced every 6k with good engine oil (Castrol 10/40 magnatec)

Would really appreciate some prompt advise and solution (please)

Thanks

Adam  Sad
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Re: 307 1.4 hdi HELP!!!!!

PENITAR

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PostPosted: Fri 30 Mar, 2012 5:31 am Reply with quote
Hi, well it's very unlikely anyone would provide a "solution", too many variables / possibles, such as:- lead content in right shoe/boot, partially clogged air filter, partially  blocked air intake, slightly binding brakes, incorrect tyre pressures, slipping clutch, timing slightly out,cylinder valves not pressure gas tight,  or other cause of reduced cylinder compressions (including turbo), injector dribble.

Not suggesting all the above apply to your car, just listing what could be the cause generally - either singularly or combined.
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Re: 307 1.4 hdi HELP!!!!!

Adam307307

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PostPosted: Fri 30 Mar, 2012 10:34 pm Reply with quote
PENITAR wrote (View Post):
Hi, well it's very unlikely anyone would provide a "solution", too many variables / possibles, such as:- lead content in right shoe/boot, partially clogged air filter, partially  blocked air intake, slightly binding brakes, incorrect tyre pressures, slipping clutch, timing slightly out,cylinder valves not pressure gas tight,  or other cause of reduced cylinder compressions (including turbo), injector dribble.

Not suggesting all the above apply to your car, just listing what could be the cause generally - either singularly or combined.


Hi PENITAR

Thank you for your reply

Everything you have mentioned seems fine however there is one interesting thing you had pointed out which is Injector Dribble. Sorry to sound stupid, what is an injector dribble. My car use to hesitate previously when i use to move away from junctions/round abouts and having contacted the AA breakdown they had mentioned that the 3rd injector was not allowing enough fuel to pass through hence the hesitation.

I had thrown in a few bottles of Diesel injector cleaner into the fuel tank and had given it a full blast on the dual carriage way and bingo, it had cured the problem.

The only problem i have now is the car consumes alot of fuel, its only giving me 30mpg.

Would really appreciate your input

Thanks

Adam  Sad
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Re: 307 1.4 hdi HELP!!!!!

PENITAR

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PostPosted: Sat 31 Mar, 2012 10:04 am Reply with quote
Hi Adam,  injector dribble is the result of the nozzle seat or other fuel passage seal (within the injector body) not fully closing when required to do so, thus fuel dribbles throughout the combustion cycle (induction/compression/power/exhaust) as well as atomized spray required at close to the top of the compression stroke and so obviously more fuel than necessary is used.

I do not suggest that to be the case regarding your car - it's just a possible among several including one I omitted - leakage from the excess fuel return to the tank from the injectors.

Would comment that it is somewhat of a coincidence following use of injector cleaner.  Again, I do not suggest that to be the cause of the problem.
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Re: 307 1.4 hdi HELP!!!!!

Adam307307

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PostPosted: Sat 31 Mar, 2012 4:00 pm Reply with quote
PENITAR wrote (View Post):
Hi Adam,  injector dribble is the result of the nozzle seat or other fuel passage seal (within the injector body) not fully closing when required to do so, thus fuel dribbles throughout the combustion cycle (induction/compression/power/exhaust) as well as atomized spray required at close to the top of the compression stroke and so obviously more fuel than necessary is used.

I do not suggest that to be the case regarding your car - it's just a possible among several including one I omitted - leakage from the excess fuel return to the tank from the injectors.

Would comment that it is somewhat of a coincidence following use of injector cleaner.  Again, I do not suggest that to be the cause of the problem.


Hi PENITAR

Thank you for your reply

I am still kind of baffled and i am out of ideas as to what it can be that is giving me low mpg.

Would really appreciate if you could (please) offer help/advice as to what the problem could be

PS: by the way can it possibly be the CAT Converter or am i just being stupid

Thanks

Adam  Sad
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Re: 307 1.4 hdi HELP!!!!! Injector

Adam307307

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PostPosted: Sat 31 Mar, 2012 8:13 pm Reply with quote
PENITAR wrote (View Post):
Hi Adam,  injector dribble is the result of the nozzle seat or other fuel passage seal (within the injector body) not fully closing when required to do so, thus fuel dribbles throughout the combustion cycle (induction/compression/power/exhaust) as well as atomized spray required at close to the top of the compression stroke and so obviously more fuel than necessary is used.

I do not suggest that to be the case regarding your car - it's just a possible among several including one I omitted - leakage from the excess fuel return to the tank from the injectors.

Would comment that it is somewhat of a coincidence following use of injector cleaner.  Again, I do not suggest that to be the cause of the problem.


HI PENITAR

Ive had a local mechanic to have a look at the car and he has confirmed that the 3rd injector is definitely dribbling and hence the high fuel consumption.

What can i do, what would be the cheap and effective solution to sort out the 3rd injector

Would really appreciate your advice

Thanks

Adam  Sad
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Re: 307 1.4 hdi HELP!!!!!

PENITAR

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PostPosted: Sat 31 Mar, 2012 11:59 pm Reply with quote
Hi, glad you got some 'eyes on' help.

Options are:- New injector (very expensive).  Second hand one (ebay/scrappy) still bloody silly money + risk of quality.  Get the faulty one repaired/serviced, there may be an injection specialist /renovator in your area, get price (ish) first.

NOTE: if intending to do the job yourself, that these hdi engine injectors can be a RIGHT ROYAL PIG TO REMOVE due to coking / rusting.  It is sometimes the case that part exchange will not be accepted if injector shows sign of exterior damage.

By job I mean injector removal ONLY - TESTING/RENOVATION IS SPECIALISED AND COULD BE DANGEROUS (atomised spray can penetrate skin !).

Sorry - no super cheap remedy "
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Re: 307 1.4 hdi HELP!!!!! Injector problem

Adam307307

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PostPosted: Sun 01 Apr, 2012 11:55 am Reply with quote
PENITAR wrote (View Post):
Hi, glad you got some 'eyes on' help.

Options are:- New injector (very expensive).  Second hand one (ebay/scrappy) still bloody silly money + risk of quality.  Get the faulty one repaired/serviced, there may be an injection specialist /renovator in your area, get price (ish) first.

NOTE: if intending to do the job yourself, that these hdi engine injectors can be a RIGHT ROYAL PIG TO REMOVE due to coking / rusting.  It is sometimes the case that part exchange will not be accepted if injector shows sign of exterior damage.

By job I mean injector removal ONLY - TESTING/RENOVATION IS SPECIALISED AND COULD BE DANGEROUS (atomised spray can penetrate skin !).

Sorry - no super cheap remedy "


Hi PENITAR

Thank You for your reply

Wanted to ask what sort of price should i be expected to pay to have the:

1. injector reconditioned (from a specialist)
2. to have the injector removed and refitted by a mechanic

Do you know of any good reputable companies who can offer the reconditioning service at a good price

By the way, because the 3rd injector dribbles, if i dont have the injector sorted out can it cause harm to the engine or other components.

It seems injector replacement is pretty expensive, is there any kind of good cleaning additives (pour into the fuel tank)  i could try first that could sort out the injector.

would really appreciate your input

Thanks

Adam  Sad
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Re: 307 1.4 hdi HELP!!!!!

PENITAR

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PostPosted: Sun 01 Apr, 2012 1:15 pm Reply with quote
Hi again Adam, you're very welcome.

As for 1. Really can't say because may vary from area to area and in any event I have not needed such since retirement (ish) in 96 - so cost would have increased since, it really is a case of you phoning around - perhaps looking on eBay for repairers listings or recon' exchange injector.

As for 2. How long's a piece of string !  The potential problem is removal - is it seized in and what are hourly rates in your area (where are you anyway) suggest you contact that mechanic again OR if you have the tools/reasonable confidence try it yourself.

The pipes to/on the injector need to be removed, the metal one from the common fuel rail is pretty straight forward - the excess fuel leak off pipe at the
top is probably held in place with a spring clip (remove) and pipe just then pulls out - DON'T LET THE CLIP JUMP OFF INTO THE UNKNOWN - KEEP IT SAFE until needed for re-assembly.

The injector securing method then needs removing - which will be either a single clamp type (held in by one bolt) pressing down onto a metal 'shoulder' part of the injector body OR two opposing bolts/studs on either side of body.

Injector ready to come out - with assistance of  A VERY GOOD FITTING SPANNER on any available part of the injector body EXCLUDING THE TOP CAP PORTION and try moving spanner from side to side while using other hand to pull it out - if it does not move from side to side at all it is seized in to some degree - soak overnight with diesel and try again.

If it comes out - put it in clean sealed plastic bag AVOIDING ANY IMPACT AT ANY TIME TO THE NOZZLE END.  Also be advised that the injector/hole is pressure sealed by a copper washer - take note if that remains in the hole or comes out with the injector - if former then it may be stuck in by carbon - if latter then take it off / keep just in case.  Push rag or plastic bag into hole to prevent debris entering cylinder.

Do not think the dribble would cause damage (nor hydraulic effect between piston/head causing big end wear) in the short term, not in cylinder long enough and unlike petrol will not have much 'wash away' of carbon deposits nor cylinder oil.

As for any further use of chemical additives - probably best avoided !

Realise you've used all your free-bee posts now so make your own mind up about joining.

Anyway, GOOD LUCK.

BY THE WAY,  did the mechanic specifically POINT OUT the duff injector or only identify it as number 3, because Pug's for some reason beyond my comprehension reverse number the cylinders, THE GEARBOX END IS NUMBER ONE ACCORDING TO THEM !  Don't want to be taking out the wrong injector now do we !

ANYBODY OUT THERE NOW STILL WONDERING WHY REPAIRS ARE SO EXPENSIVE ?
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