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1999 V 306 1.8 16v XS - Irratic Idle/Surge (petrol)

robbie1980

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What Peugeot do you own?: 306
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PostPosted: Wed 22 Jul, 2009 12:34 pm Reply with quote
Hi All,

I really hope someone can help as this problem is really starting to frustrate me as otherwise, my 63,000 306 has been a good car for me for last 5 years.

A few months back the idle started to fluctuate, generally between 800-1200rpm but occasionally higher. However, it has never failed to start or cut out.

I also notice that the car is jerky at low speeds (ie when crawling as to not stop at lights) and also recently I have sensed the car, when at ~ 50mph and the rev counter showing constant RPM, that the engine feels like it is surging/retarding slightly.

I haven't notice a problem with fuel consumption and generally no lack of power other than conditions mentioned above.

Sometimes, the problem seems to go away and hardly noticable, then it comes back.

It has regualar oil/filter changes and have recently put in some Red-ex fuel cleaner.

I have done some reading on this issue and see all sorts of comments and fault coil packs damaging ECUs, MAP, MAF, 02 and lamba sensors.

I have cleaned and replaced the idle control valve (stepper motor) and tried ECU resets with no avail.

I am even considering the UK scrappage scheme and my car will qualify next month, but then look at my Pug after a wash (Moonstone Blue) with mint cyclone alloys and still think it looks great!

I don't mind spending some money to sort the problem but i can't afford to throw loads at it and not solve it.

I rang Peugeot for their advice and they say it's just poor running or the MAP sensor. I don't believe i have any vacuum pipes on the MAP sensor as on some models and i don't see any damaged hoses from what i can see.

I am a mechanical engineer, but work with large pumps not cars so would really appecaite some guidance from an expert.

Are there any particular hoses i should be looking at? Help finding them..... Smile

There are no warning lights up so i think a basic diagnostic check wouldn't show anything. I think it would need an expert with the car running and Peugeot Planet software......?

I've read this below

http://www.carclinicmagazine.com/peugeot_common_ecu_failures.html

and if i believe it I would need a new coil pack ~ 90 and a new or repaired ECU (hundreds)....

I'll stop ranting and listen to any advice.

Hope someone can help,

Thanks for reading,
Rob

Forgot to mention I live in Wakefield, West Yorkshire...
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Re: 1999 V 306 1.8 16v XS - Irratic Idle/Surge (petrol)

silver_bullet

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PostPosted: Mon 27 Jul, 2009 8:57 am Reply with quote
Hi mate there are a few diffrent things you could try first thing i would do is take spark plugs out clean them give them a rub with some fine grit sand paper between the prongs on the metal bits change them if they look damaged or very old. then you should take off air inlet pipe big black pipe right of throttle body clean in ther with a lint free clean cloth clean the sensor as this gets very dirty from the air flow. then take off the idle control valve very easy job two hex screws and pull off the two small black pipes either side if you want its round with a plug in clean all grime and dirt offl lightly  spray with oil / grease after clean. then if that has not fixed then get under the car and unscrew o2 sensor lambda sensor check for age and condition if old damaged replace it if dirty clean well. then you could try the manifold air pressure sensor or map sensore a new one ebay for 20 or ask some one whos braking for one its located under throttle body never needed to find it but thats where it is im sure... Hope this helps and peugeot will say ecu as they can tell you any thing, as the adverage person aint got a clue about ecu  they can charge loads. The ecu is good at re programming its self after reset. So as long as the car is mechanically good. you will be fine
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Re: 1999 V 306 1.8 16v XS - Irratic Idle/Surge (petrol)

robbie1980

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PostPosted: Mon 27 Jul, 2009 9:22 am Reply with quote
Hi,

Thanks for taking the time to respond.

I will try the spark plugs first (i think they were decent Bosch Super4) and were last replaced approx 18months ago.

When you say the black pipe, i presume you mean the one after the air filter which secures onto the throttle body by a push fit and big clip- never thought to clean inside there!

The sensor you talk about - is this the one just after where the black pipe/hose secures onto the throttle body which just looks like a small capacitor poking inside from underneath? What is this sensor called out of interest?

Have replaced the Idle control valve before and cleaned inside its housing, but will try the above first.

Will look in Haynes manual, but how easy is the o2 sensor to access?

Cheers
Rob
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Re: 1999 V 306 1.8 16v XS - Irratic Idle/Surge (petrol)

silver_bullet

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PostPosted: Mon 27 Jul, 2009 11:29 am Reply with quote
Hello yes thats right the air inlet to the throttle body its a big black pipe with big silver clip you have to pull it hard or i push it down with my palm .
Bosch super spark plugs are a con i fitted some for a wile then swaped back to single electrodes as it seemed more slugish. It didnt make sence, its surely quicker for the spark to go straight to one place rather than having to decide first????????
The sensor is called MAP sensor or MANIFOLD AIR PRESSURE sensor it is under the throttle body you should look further in to it though as i have never had to find our i do know it had a big impact on the way your car drives like you had descriped
There is another sensor about 20" down from the manifold on the exhaust not that easy to get to it pokes out and can be undone with a spaner its called a LAMBDA sensor or OXYGEN sensor. Hope this helps Andy
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Re: 1999 V 306 1.8 16v XS - Irratic Idle/Surge (petrol)

robbie1980

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PostPosted: Tue 01 Sep, 2009 2:49 pm Reply with quote
Hi there,

I changed the spark plugs to standard single (removed bosch super4s) and when i did this the idle steadied and the drive was smoother and didn't surge/lunge.

After a couple of days it came back and has got gradually worse.

I couldn't remove the o2(lamba) sensor to clean as it was too firmly tightened on and felt like i was going to snap the weld onto the CAT pipe.

I cannot get accesss the MAP sensor - god knows how a mechanic would do it! Even lifting the front up - i would need to break my arm!

Cleaned the parts you mentioned and still no good.

What i can conclude is when i cleaned my old spark plugs tried it, then put some new ones in a tried it, it was good for a short while after (1-3 days). Each time the coil pack was obviously removed and put back. I wonder (comments please) if there is an internal/intermittant fault in the coil pack if the movement of it somehow makes a difference and fault comes back......

When i move the coil pack (all in one type no leads) something does seem to move inside - dont know if this is normal.....Could my problems me caused by a faulty coil pack?

I think i will remove and put back tonight without touching the plugs to test my theory!

They seem to be ~ 90/100 for a new Valeo one from GSF/Euro Car Parts.....

Would be nice to borrow one and test it but i dont know anyone else with one....

Comments please along with any suggestions on good makes of coil packs and places to buy.

Thanks again,
Rob
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Re: 1999 V 306 1.8 16v XS - Irratic Idle/Surge (petrol)

canyondust

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PostPosted: Tue 01 Sep, 2009 5:52 pm Reply with quote
I'd be edging towards a coil pack failure.
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Re: 1999 V 306 1.8 16v XS - Irratic Idle/Surge (petrol)

robstar1980

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PostPosted: Fri 11 Sep, 2009 12:30 pm Reply with quote
Hi,
First of all I apologise for taking a new name out as my 5 posts had run out. I will join if i fix the issue, but at the moment my car is leaking money.

I have recently changed the MAP sensor which hasn't cured the problem.

I had a blow after my central silencer and replaced this, which for a day seemed to have cured it, but sadly no Sad

Like i've said before i have changed spark plugs, stepper motor (ICV).

I also recently tried a brand new coil pack which didn't solve - managed to take this back!

I have unplugged the throttle position sensor which isn't the problem either.

I also took off the air intake pipe to check whether the butterfly valve was moving when it revved up on idle - stupid i know - but it didn't. I cleaned all inside the throttle body and the butterfly valve is not gunged up.

Question 1: Just inside the throttle body before the butterfly valve there is what looks like a fountain pen nib sticking up from bottom of body. Is this the MAF sensor? I uplugged it anyway and problem persisted.

I can see the bypass from the throttle body (before butterfly valve) which sends air towards the stepper motor (ICV) and there is something else in there which has a clip push/pull connector.

Question 2: Is this the air intake temperature sensor? I unplugged this too and didn't solve the problem.

I'm really stuck guys and it's frustrating me as hell!

Done some searching and a lot of people mention vacuum pipes and breather hoses (crankhaft in particular) which may be cracked. I could really do with some advice on locating these as i'm no expert.

The air filter and fuel filter were changed back in March and have done approx 3000 miles since then. I've had redex in the tank to help clean the injectors.

I've also read someone saying the purge control valve was their problem. A lot of info and questions, i apologise. Help with the above questions and location of vacuum and breather pipes is my first port of call....very open to help! Cheers, Rob
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Re: 1999 V 306 1.8 16v XS - Irratic Idle/Surge (petrol)

toddy

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PostPosted: Fri 11 Sep, 2009 12:42 pm Reply with quote
hi,,i would personnaly send the ecu off for test/repair.

whilst it will mean car off road for a few days,its a relatively quick and simple test,eliminating a major part.

toddy
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Re: 1999 V 306 1.8 16v XS - Irratic Idle/Surge (petrol)

robstar1980

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PostPosted: Fri 11 Sep, 2009 1:02 pm Reply with quote
thanks for your post.

We are quite close. Do you know anywhere local with good reputation or non-local that you've used?

Would still like some help with location of vacuum and breather pipes...Smile

Ta
Rob
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Re: 1999 V 306 1.8 16v XS - Irratic Idle/Surge (petrol)

toddy

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PostPosted: Fri 11 Sep, 2009 1:43 pm Reply with quote
hi,,if this were an induction air leak i would buy some carb cleaner and spray it around the induction system when its sat idling to see if there is any change in engine note etc,,
toddy
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